He’s dined with Sinatra, rubbed elbows with the Beatles, shaken the hand of just about every President since Harry Truman and mentored perhaps the most recognizable figure in the history of sports. But even if you’re not a boxing enthusiast and you saw him out at a restaurant in Tampa, you may very well say to yourself, ‘wait a minute, there’s something special about this guy’.
At 88 years young, Angelo Dundee’s mind is a virtual encyclopedia of boxing, cataloging the history of what men like him coined, “The Sweet Science”. Rattling off names of every back alley bruiser from Philadelphia to New York, Dundee worked in an era when boxing was king and a heavy weight champion was nearly on par with the likes of Elvis.
I’ve had the pleasure of meeting with and interviewing this legend on several occasions and even for those unaware of his accomplishments, there is no denying his charm and spirit are extraordinary.
So I figured who better to chat with for the inaugural edition of AS*I*BE magazine? Who better represents the power of the star and encapsulates the spirit of what we try to bring forth than Mr. Dundee?
Ian Beckles: Your career spans seven decades. But how did you get your start in boxing?
Angelo Dundee: My brother Christian had been in boxing forever, since he was a kid. I’m the youngest of five and he’s the second oldest. I was always hanging around the gym in South Philly. So one day, this guy, Christian’s friend, says, ‘you got all these fighters, why don’t you get one of your brothers to help you’. Sothat’s how it started
IB: Just that simple?
AD: Well, you know, that got my foot in the door. My brother lived in New York. He had an office at the Capitol Hotel on 51st and 8th avenue, that’s where I lived. There was a couch and a closet. I was the bucket boy. I ate, slept and drankboxing every day.
That area there is where all the boxers and trainers would hang out. I’d meet all the trainers for breakfast in the morning and I worked every fight club in the city. I also got a little taste of boxing in Europe. That’s where I met Joe Louis in 1944. I was a Warehouse Chief in the airport. We’d go to USO tournament fights and I’d be the seconds in the corner. God help us if they needed help. I didn’t know what I was doing. I was just standing there.
IB: What aspect of the sport made you fall in love with it? What drove you?
AD: It just appealed to me. I got a big kick out of being around the guys. I developed so much respect for fighters. For instance, I saw one guy get his butt kicked for 10 rounds. After the fight, he got $300 and I had to argue with him all the way home because I wouldn’t take any money. I became friends with all these guys.
IB: But you never had the urge to become a boxer yourself? Any desire to get into the ring?
AD: Na, my brother Joe was the fighter. I couldn’t fight. You got to have talent to fight. I could always handle myself though. And my other brother, Jimmy, he kind of mentored me. If somebody gave me a hard time, he’d make us get together and we’d have it out, you know? Get it over with. But no, I wasn’t a tough guy, I never looked for fights. But I could always handle myself.
IB: So, with you and all your brothers, the Dundee name must have carried some weight?
AD: Actually our father’s last name was Merena. My brother Joe was the first one to fight under the name Dundee. I kind of adopted it unofficially, and it wasn’t until I got married, that I made it legal. But what’s in a name ya know?
IB: So then, what, in your mind, did your brothers teach you that you felt endeared you to the other fighters?
AD: Well, the one thing I did learn, early on, was to mind my own business when it came to family and religion. I learned an awful lot just watching too. I stayed in the gym and observed. I learned that you keep your mouth shut and your eyes open. Don’t talk. Just listen.
IB: How did you become a motivator?
AD: I knew the individuals. You got to know the guy you’re working with. I did a case study on the guys. In fact, they used to call me a psychiatrist. I get along with anybody though. I mean I’d get along with a dead rat.
IB: So that’s your secret?
AD: You know Ian, I worked with a lot of great trainers. I’d watched. I’d observe. But in the same respect, I’ve always said to myself and to my fighters, “you can’t be the other individual. You have to be yourself. You can’t copy another individual. You got to go your own route.” In other words, if you got a fighter who tries to imitate somebody, it comes up phony.
IB: How early can you see how much heart a fighter has?
AD: Oh that’s very simple. Because they keep coming to the gym every day and that means they want it. They have to want it first. Forget the heart. They all got heart and they all got courage or they wouldn’t be fighters. You have to dedicate yourself first. The talent will come.
IB: That said, when or how did you know Muhammed Ali wanted it?
AD: I was in Louisville Kentucky with Willie Pastrano who was fighting Alonso Johnson and I get a call from the lobby and this guy says, I’m Cassius Marcellus Clay and I’m the Golden Gloves champ. I want to talk to you’.
I told Willie, there’s a kid down there who wants to talk to us. Some sort of a nut. So [Clay] came up and talked to me for like three hours. He wanted to know everything there was to know. How far do your fighters run? What do they eat before a fight? I was impressed, but I didn’t know who he was. I’ll be honest with you.
IB: So, you begin working with him. The question is, when was the eye-opening moment when you said, “this kid may be something special?”
AD: He fought a guy from Detroit, Henry Cooper, who was a converted southpaw and I said, ‘Muhammad, if this guy goes back against the ropes, don’t go in’. And boom, Cooper hit him with the greatest shot. And [Ali] is facing me, going down, his eyes were closing, and when his face hit the canvas he woke up. He took a great shot and came back the next round and ended the fight with a technical knockout in the fifth. I knew then, the Cooper fight showed me he was ready. WATCH THE YOU TUBE VIDEO OF MUHAMMED ALI VS HENRY COOPER (a seperate window will open).
IB: You really seemed to have a connection with Ali. What was he like to train?
AD: Muhammad was the nicest kid you ever wanted to meet, and a huge fan of boxing. I do a thing where I make all my fighters meet guys I think are important. I brought Muhammed to New York and made him meet [Jack] Dempsey, and Dempsey is showing him how to throw a jab the wrong way and I said “Jack I don’t make my guys jab that way and I turned it over”. But I respect Jack Dempsey. Dempsey was one of those guys who hung out right around the corner from 51st and 8th ave.
IB: Those days must have been crazy. All the fighters, the trainers and celebritites. And what about the Mob? Back in the day, were they involved in boxing like we hear about?
AD: Frank Sinatra. The Beatles. We met them all. Every movie star would want to come to the 5th Street Gym. At times there were hundreds of people trying to get in.
And in those days, I hung out with Sinatra quite a bit. I had carte blanche with him as far as getting my friends and I back stage at
his shows.
As far as the mob though, I read about it too. I was in an elevator one time at the Parks Hotel and this guy gets in and I say to him, “You know, you look pretty familiar”. And he says, “You don’t know me.” It was Frankie Carbo (a New York mobster and boxing promoter connected with the Lucchese Crime Family). I had seen his picture in the paper. And then another time at the gym we had some made guys in there and I said to my guy, “hey, you tell them to leave cause I don’t want no bad publicity”. And he said, “I’m not telling them. You tell them.”
IB: That’s what you might refer to as the “Golden Age” of boxing. In your opinion, where do you see the sport today? What’s wrong with boxing?
AD: Ain’t nothing wrong. I think boxing is still great, especially here in Tampa. The only thing I would like to see is to get more local kids involved in it. We need more gyms were kids can go and learn. We need more pavilions were fans can see local guys fight.
Who has a name quality now? [Floyd] Mayweather. [Oscar] Del la Hoya. They have name recognition. People got to have recognition. And that comes from little local clubs where they know who the guys are, then they build a following. They followed Muhammed. They followed a Ray Leonard. But a lot of that was (Howard) Cosell, he let them know who the fighters were.
IB: So boxing is alive and kicking?
AD: No doubt. Let me tell you something about the strength of boxing. I run into people all the time on the plane, and I mean from every walk of life. I’m talking priests, scientists, businessmen, you name it. And they all like boxing. And Presidents too. I met (Bill) Clinton. He was a fight fan. (Ronald) Regan was a fight fan. I met [John] Kennedy when Muhammad was a kid. He was a fight fan. People like boxing.
IB: People Like you. You came into the radio station at 620 WDAE one day to do an interview and it was almost like having a rock star in the building. And the ladies dig you too. Are you alright with that?
AD: Yea, I’m alright with that. I like it. I’m a people person. My wife says I’m a goodie good shoes.
IB: I can’t believe you’re 88 years old. It’s been a pleasure listening to you. What can we expect from Angelo Dundee in the future.
AD: You’re as old as you want to be. I’m a very happy individual and I enjoy life. I enjoy fun and I enjoyed meeting you. I’ve been married for 57 years. So my wife and I are happy these days in Tampa.
I’m happy doing what I’m doing. I spend a lot of time on the computer these days. I mean I’m still learning but I spend my time promoting and writing newspaper guys. I should be my own marketing guy. But basically, I’m just having fun.
